Yes, true, when Trojan… because he – but the thing about that, he was the one that controlling most of the artists them. Because B&C Music, y’understan’, he was the one! Because John Holt make a hit, Ken Boothe make a hit, Dandy Livingstone make a hit, Nicky Thomas – because they was down at Trojan, yeah, Pioneers and a few more artists. Yeah? But what I heard – this is what I heard, I don’t know because I wasn’t with Trojan them times, y’know, right, I never with Trojan them times, but I had a friend going there. But Chips Richards – you know Chips?
He used to run Sky Note, the UK branch of Mrs Pottinger’s High Note label at the time.
Yes, yes. He used to promote the records them in Trojan.
Like a ‘record plugger’?
He was the A&R (i.e. ‘Artist & Repertoire’), he was a promoter, he promotes the record. Everything that Trojan has, he has something to do with it. He was the upfront man, because he’s educated about them things, you see. Yeah? And he was the upfront man. Now, when I did ‘Natty Bongo’ now for Bunny Lee in Jamaica, that comes in the chart. Yeah man! Yeah, because that was heading up, that was headin’ up, it was heading for… And the same, when it came to 36, when it was 36, that’s when Trojan goes bankrupt! Yeah, when it came to 36, when it’s number 36, that’s when Trojan went bankrupt.
Right, sometime in 1975.
1975, yes! Because I just came back from New Orleans too, I just came back from New Orleans. I just came back from New Orleans, and I sat… I sat at home when he first told me that. By the time I was living in North London, Hamhurst Road, Hamhurst Road I was living in London in them times.
What area is that?
Stoke Newington.
Right, right.
Stoke Newington, and when I opened the door, I saw Chips, and he came in. And he just throw himself up, y’know. I said “Say it again?”, and he said, “Boss, sorry, Trojan bust it”. Just like that, said Trojan had bust it. He said, “Boss, Trojan gone bankrupt”. And he had lost a lot of money in it, y’know.
Invested personally a lot of his own capital.
Yeah! Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, I’m tellin’ you (chuckles), he had lost a lot! He had lost a lot of money, because each month he used to put a certain amount of his pay back in the company, y’understan’ what I mean. And it got busted, got busted. But that’s how life goes.
And Gopthal was out of the business after this?
Mmmm, then he left and he went and he started with Blue Mountain. I just don’t know, I just don’t know how that man get himself in this, but he talked his way in!
OK.
(Chuckles) Because they used to be in the West End, off… is it Brook Street, is it Brook Street or…? One a them, one a them streets off – when you go Park Lane, and it’s a street whe you have a petrol station right at the corner, Park Lane on that street, that’s where they used to be. And he get himself in there, and still he gets artists! Because even myself, even myself did do some signing. But after, he still – I heard that, y’know, a lot of money an’ all them t’ing deh, they just… you know? He wasn’t an honest man at all.
How was Gopthal on a personal level to deal with?
Well, the thing about it, not superficial, but when someone say something to me, all I have to know is don’t promise me – do the damn thing, y’understan’. I said: “Don’t promise me, don’t want no promises, I never come in this world under no promises”. For that never put me under no promises, if you gonna do, you do it! If you can’t do it, just say you can’t do it! Or you just tell me sez, ‘I’ll try, I’ll try my best’. But don’t say ‘I promise that I will’, because I’m not going for that, I’m not going for no promises. Because my life is not made upon no promises at all.
A promise won’t put any bread on your table, highly unlikely in most cases, isn’t it?
You cannot do that! You can’t do that, you can’t put bread on the table.
Have to be something concrete.
You can’t have them promise you, because you can’t make your stomach feed nice with promises.
True.
Because when you can’t keep to that promise, you only make yourself looks a fool. Because, if you tell the person ‘Oh, I’m gonna promise you and I’m gonna promise and promise’, y’know, it’s just that. But all those people that was workin’ in Trojan and all they do was just grab, grab, grab, grab, grab and grab! And they don’t care what they grab, they just grab. They don’t care who gets hurt, they just grab. But Father was watchin’ them very closely, Father was watchin’ a few of them very, very closely. Very, very closely He was watchin’ them, because He knew what a few of them were doing was wrong. I wrote a song… y’know, I don’t know if you remember, if you’ve heard a song called ‘You Take Away Everything’?