Ken Parker – Sacred Songs (The Interview)
Where: Florida
When: April 2004
Reporter: Peter I
Photos: Courtesy of Beth Lesser, Ken Parker, and the respective record companies (labels/sleeves)
Copyright: 2025 – Peter I
Jamaica in the late sixties seemed to be the place of a never-ending flow of soulful voices and great instrumental players in music, there was no shortage of supply regarding entertainers of high class and ability in those times; a musical period of consistency, taste, skill, and what we have is a legacy of lasting and extremely enjoyable music which has stood the test of time. But regardless how great the talent, how consistent on the charts, how appreciated on stage and how highly regarded you became in the local media, that in itself wasn’t a guarantee for being steady on the scene. You had to face the less than pleasant parts of being involved, dealing with unscrupulous people, a lack of reward for all the efforts you’d put in to make a decent performance; the heartbreaking aspects of being an artist in a business which was tougher than tough; you either sustain the vibe or perish so to speak. Some did (lasted that is), many more didn’t.
I guess you heard, less than a week ago we’ve lost yet another important songbird in the music – Phyllis Dillon.
Phyllis Dillon, yeah.
You both were contemporary at Treasure Isle in the sixties. Did you work together there?
Yeah, that was in the early days, that’s the early days. I think if I am not mistaken, one of the tracks that I have done on Treasure Isle, I dunno if she was the one who did the backing or if we actually did a song together. I think she was the one who did ‘Sincerely’, but I’m not too sure (sings the chorus).
I think that was credited to one ‘Dorothy Russell’, whoever that was.
Oh, OK.
Never heard that name before though, it could be her maiden name for all I know – or a name Duke made up to get the publishing, not unlikely.
Yeah, yeah. That song that they… actually it was her song, but she couldn’t do the high note and couldn’t do the changes according to how the song went, so Duke asked me to sing along with her to give her ideas in how to sing the song. But afterwards she just included me in, y’know, the singin’ of that song, so that’s why actually that track was not originally my track. But it was a track that Duke had liked, so it’s just that I start singin’ the part for her and then the rest of the song is history.
Yeah, it was in Westmoreland. It was my father, who was the minister, and so we would go from parish to parish. But my actual home was Darliston, which is in Westmoreland. I spent roughly about… I think when I was probably about six or seven, the mission moved us to Corrall Mountain, which is in the same parish, I mean it’s in the same parish but in a different district, y’know what I mean? This place was called Corrall Mountain. But my first early schooldays was in Darliston where we lived and had the family home. And then I went over to Corrall Mountain, which was when I finished school in Corrall Mountain. And then afterwards me and my dad moved to Bull Head, which is another district in Westmoreland. So we moved from parish to parish. You know, like it’s been five or so years ago and once in a particular place then the ministry would move him to another parish. So that was in the early, way down in the real early days of growing up.
Which, I suppose, was a very strict upbringing, being really ‘tied up’ within a Christian home.
Oh yes, oh yeah. We’re effectively what you’d call ‘the parson’s son’ (chuckles). And you know ‘parson’s son’ is like what you’d call when the policeman’s son or daughter, they’d have to be… if your parents have any… In the West Indies really when your parents are professional people, the children are often times would being watched more than anybody else. And it is required of the children to behave and act a certain way, because anything that show by the lights on the parents. You know, my parents were very strict. That was not one of the things that we could do like what other children did by keeping company and sitting on the corner or throwing the stones or, y’know, swearing or keeping bad company. All of that sort of stuff was out. So we grew up real strict, really strict, really strict. As you say many other things that the other children did then – and doing now, for how the question where we were concerned.
But was it an upbringing… a harmonious upbringing even though it was strict, not the one where you were, more or less, in constant fear of punishment?
Well, it was in my days. It was harmonious but there is certain things you just don’t do or even think of. I mean, it would be harmonious, yes, but you know if you step out the line then you have to reckon with our mum. You see what I mean? So it was a constant – as it were bringing you up… as a matter of fact the bible said that really you should train the child in a way that they should grow, that when they’re old they will not depart from it. And I believe a lot of things that happen today and a lot of troubles that children get into these days is because of parents lack of guidance.
Perhaps even a lack of ‘strictness’.
Yeah, a lack of awareness of what the possibility of not walking in line with, y’know, treating others as you would have them treat you. Respect and honesty and decency and, y’know, all that stuff. You know, respect and honour, although all those things seems to be like eases (?) from the west these days. And for that reason a lot of children get into drugs and get into prostitution and all sorts of stuff that is destructive to ones health and ones well-being. So I believe that in order for our society or in order for a parent, or for a family, to grow up and not step over the border of destruction, there should be and there must be guidelines. Where there is no guidelines then they’re falling away and where you have no guidelines you gonna have chaos as it is. You have to…
Right, you need a certain framework of regulations to follow and to function properly.
Yeah, you have to. And also one have to understand… one of the things that I think is often at times very important, is that often times people blame society or they blame somebody else, and often times first look in the mirror and they see is that person is not to be blamed first before you start pushing ‘blames’ around. Because we’re responsible for our actions. Some actions can often times… it can be done from frustration or from bitterness or from anxiety or from illusion or from – you have different forms of ones actions, but at all times you should have a framework by which you are guided by. And that’s something that – I remember this artist, we hadn’t really, say, we were buddy-friends, y’know, but I knew him and he knew me, because he was one of the people that was referred to as competitive in the same… in one of the secular of the voices that I’ve seen. And I went to Canada to meet up with him, and I was appalled to hear that sort of bad language that was coming out of this guy’s mouth, I was appalled. I said well, ‘hoophh’… ‘You are not one of the people I really want to associate with, regardless of what type of voice you have’ (laughs)! You know, there are certain things, Peter, that I just don’t alline myself with. If it’s not a blessed thing, if it’s not beneficial in whether if we are conversing and it’s not uplifting or it’s not worthwhile, why should I spend time conversing with basically a fool? Unless I can straighten that fool out (laughs)!
(Laughs) Yeah! I mean, there are some jobs that is too much to take on. There are some people that, no matter how hard you try, you can’t turn them from what they are.
Maybe that’s not the point either – we are what we are, you choose what is best for you.
Yeah, often times I’m sure that it have to do with pending on if you’re selfish or you’re giving or you’re considerate to others. Some people will use you – because you may be a person that gives concern about the well-being of others, some people might view that as weakness. But it doesn’t mean that you’re weak, it actually means that you’re strong to be considerate for others.
It’s not gonna be an abusive strictness, it was not an abusive strictness; it was a strictness of being aware as to who you are, who your parents were. And what is required of you as children and how you should live and how you should think about. There’s the honesty, there is also integrity and also respect to others. And thoughtfulness towards others. I think that the home that one’s brother is being helped in fashion you in how you eventually be in life. You see what I mean? Some people weren’t lucky enough to have a structured home, but yet they grew up with structured people. So it doesn’t mean that because your brother grew in a structured home where you have guidelines, it doesn’t mean that you turn out to be somebody of worth and somebody of integrity and all that; because you have some real people that just brought up in real structured homes but yet came out to be thieves and killers and liars and all the other stuff, or come out to be destructive to themselves or to others. So really, when I give thanks for my upbringing and who I was, it helped to fashion me and also helped to guide me away from things that could be destructive to me. So it’s basically that.
We should move into the music now, but anyhow, when you reach the stage where – I suppose regardless of how you are brought up – one wants to test the authorities in life, I assume this wasn’t different for you growing up.
No, I never feel that I had to – as it were – ‘test the lines’ of, say, ‘crossing the line’, I never feel the need to do so. To me, I was always thinking of – from early days I was really interested in the different artists and the way they might project a song. People that I was really interested in, people like Sam Cooke. Because I liked his flair/flavour of doing a song, the way that he put over the song was unique in his own way. The other people that I was interested in was people like Brook Benton, ’cause I like his coolness. People like Marvin Gaye, ’cause I like his way of projecting a song. People like Nat ‘King’ Cole, people like Clyde McPhatter, Otis Redding, Jim Reeves, Ernie Ford. And different, different people who – to me – project a song in a way that you want to hear it again.
That’s a nice selection of singers, a good cross-section of black and white American music. Those names pretty well sums up what the Jamaican public liked in those times, if we speak foreign music.
Yeah, right. And also I used to listen to Tammy Wynette and Billie Jo Spears and, y’know, I liked the country music and the way that these songs are projected. So any songs that I find myself really – that I was too engrossed inside listening to pick up hints from these guys how to fashion my projection of what I’m doing in my own way. Not say ‘imitating’ them because you really can’t imitate someone else, I don’t believe that you can truly imitate someone else. I can’t even imitate me.
(Chuckles) OK.
(Chuckles) You know? So I’m trying to imitate somebody else, y’know it’s impossible really (laughs). You can really come near, ’cause y’know people say ‘oh, you sound like so and you sound like so and you sound like the other’. But to duplicate this word for word, phrase for phrase, it’s not happening
Mmm, yes, but you’ve certainly heard that one before: ‘oh Ken Parker do a good Sam Cooke’, or ‘a good Jim Reeves’ or whatever?
Oh yeah, people used to say in awe ‘oh you sound like Clyde McPhatter’, ‘you sound like Ben E. King’ and ‘you sound like Sam Cooke’, ‘you sound like Jim Reeves’. Different, different people. But the reason why my range expand to directions, different directions, is because a lot of the people that I used to listen to, I admired their way of singing. So sometimes I patterned what I’m singin’, y’know, as it were close to their tone or close to their way of projecting a song. I remember doing ‘My Whole World Is Falling Down’ and that really was William Bell. Those guys sounds good but I took that song totally from its original state and we refashioned the song, and made a hit with Studio One with that song. That song was a beautiful and still is a beautiful song. You really get the original without they trying to put it too light or whatever, just give it the natural tone in mixing. That song is still a classic.
Well, basically in those days we had a lot of what you’d call ‘choruses’, chorus-lines. You know, like different choruses, chorus songs with… Actually, you’re practicing different sounds or different tones. But I didn’t get into sort of heavy practice of songs until when I actually went to Youth Corps. Then there it was these sort of periodic things that you were interested in, and the only thing that I was interested in was music. So that got me into the choir and then people start noticing the difference of my voice, and it was really interesting during that time. I had the choir director would come and sit down and just listen to me rehearse, just put a stool right in front of me and just listen to my voice. So it was there where I learned diction and learn pronounciation and…
Right, phrasing and all that.
Phrasing, right. And I mean, when going to the choir we went to different parishes, and we would sing at churches, concerts and all that thing. And then Youth Corps would have like once a year sort of talent parade sort of thing, where boys would go up and sing if you had a group and all that, then everybody want me to be a part of their group. It was really interesting. Then after I left camp then I went back to Darliston. And then from Darliston I decide well, we’re gonna go – the boys in the district was going to Kingston, so I decide that I’m gonna go with them. So, naturally they didn’t have the money, so I pay everybody’s fair and then stayed with them, at their sister, for a while. That was where I went over auditioning for Studio One. That time I had a group as well, I had a group called The Blues Blenders.
Who were the other guys in the Blenders, some local friends from Darliston?
No, actually those two guys was Kingstonians. And I don’t know how I exactly met up with them, I think I probably met them at Studio One. They weren’t what you’d call soloists, they were more like a backing group, like (and known back then for doing harmony behind several tunes by Derrick Morgan for Coxson). So I took them and started to work with them and we had worked for a period of time and whatever knowledge I had, I had to use that to try to school them into singing; the bass guy would sing bass and the tenor guy to sing tenor. So I had to be singin’ both tenor and bass to give them ideas to what they should sound like. But it was like a training ground for me also.
Still at the first stage.
Right. And then one time I had one blues group and I had one gospel group. But really what I found with groups often times was that you really had to be of one mind to work as a team over a period of time and to stay together. So after working together for probably about I would say three to four years, I think it’s probably about that time. But we weren’t doing any sort of live recording or anything like that, we were just sort of seeking auditions, y’know. But you have to practice for a while until you actually go out there and say yeah, you’re ready. You can’t just get a group together and when you go out for audition, y’know, everybody’s not on the same page and don’t know what they’re doing. So you had to be, ’cause when you go out there and like you go to Studio One and they say ‘OK, go ahead and let me hear what you have’ and if you’re not kicking, well, y’know it’s…
(Chuckles)
(Laughs) You’re out of there! And not looking too good either, y’know what I mean? And if you have a next time for audition, you turn up and they see you coming (laughs).
Right, it might spoil the whole thing?
(Laughs) Exactly!
‘Oh no, not again! Not them!’, right?
Yeah (laughs)! No, no, no, ’cause I remember I was at Studio One after I was admitted to… what you call it -‘the school of music’, Studio One. After I had passed through, one day Mr Dodd said to me, “Come and sit in with me and listen to some guys” – they had an audition. You had a lot of guys out there waiting to let them know how good they were. And some of them really come pumped, y’know ‘Mr Dodd, I have a hit tune here and…’ (laughter).
(Chuckles)
(Laughs) And Mr Dodd would say, “OK Jackson, let me hear what you have”, and Jackson start up and sometime it was like I was bustin’ to laugh, because this guy was real serious… I mean, it’s real dangerous to laugh after a guy when he think he is doing something good, you can cause yourself a lot of grief there(chuckles). So I was bustin’ to laugh but I couldn’t laugh because some of the things really was totally ridiculous. Some of the older guys figure, well, he think he had his pattern, to me it was… ohh – awful!
Mmm. Yeah, out of tune and the Jamaican crowd is really very unforgiving and often times you go up there and you have to be kickin’, and kickin’ right away.
Very demanding, discriminating.
Yeah. Yeah man, they hold your foot to the fire! I mean, you get up there and say you’re gonna sing you better sing, and sing good too (laughs)! But the level of music, really, that we did then in the foundation or were the foundation – and still is the foundation of good reggae music, y’know, you have a lot of the deejay stuff that come up nowadays and actually these guys are earning big money. But, when you look often times a lot of the rhythms and the lyrics that they really do, is not really helping the music. The music appeal has waned since about twenty years now, for about at least twenty years or so. You know what I mean? The real, real strength of music was done then. Very few you hear now you want to hear them more than once.
Yeah, totally.
You had a nice point in that interview with Mike (Turner, in The Beat, Vol. 23 – No. 1, ’04) when you said the sweetness of the music of that era, it helped to reflect the value of life and therefore the honesty and integrity of that music lasts.
Totally. And often times there are some things about it, Peter, that people don’t want to admit. In the music business a lot of people don’t really want to admit the fall or the lower step that reggae music has acquired because of this deejay stuff. A lot of the people who used to play the deejay music, people who couldn’t sing, naturally they’re broadcasters often times, and they get encouragment to play the music, so they play it. And the guy soon really come up singin’ pretty and singin’ good and singin’ sweet and having good lyrics. You know, push that aside, and now people seem to be… I mean, you imagine that you for twenty-five years you’ve been feeding children on a particular music, all they gonna grow up knowing is that particular music. So we had to, as it were, re-educate our children if we really want to recapture some of the value of what good messages is in songs. We really have to go back in writing good lyrics and re-educate our children to, y’know, project positive things through the music. There is a lot of beauty out there, there is a lot of young people coming up with excellent talent, beautiful voices – good delivery, y’know, excellent control.
It’s so sad they don’t get nourished the way they should, and a lot of the deejay music is blocking it as I see it.
Yeah, exactly. There’s no sweetness to them, so that they can project that sweetness that they have learned from others. Often times the younger artists have to go back listening to the old guys, listening to them there is so much to benefit from, so that they can project themselves in a positive way to build a foundation whereby people start, as it were, going back. That’s how you find a lot of Jamaican artists, a lot of them turned (to) singin’ gospel.
Todays music – a lot of it at least – is just a skeleton, there’s no ‘body’ to it, no flesh, y’know what I mean, not only with the fact that it’s not done by humans in that way, a ‘living interaction’.
Yeah. It’s really like a nation or like a people has lost their way, and when a people has lost their way, losing your way is much easier than regaining your way. You know, it’s like you’re travelling and you lose direction, and the ones who are following you because you have lost your direction, they lose theirs as well. So the music right now, I really haven’t heard anything (coughs) right now to say… you know like you see a young plant shooting up, you have an idea that this plant is going to be like one of those plants that will bloom just like they had bloomed before. That I don’t see or I haven’t heard or seen coming up that I can say yes, it’s really reflecting. From listening to what’s coming up, the sense of direction where reggae music is concerned I somehow feel that it has been lost and this really has been contributing. The contributing factor for that has been the derogatory way that often times people talk about drugs and guns and women and all that sort of stuff. That really doesn’t add anything to the upliftment of – to my mind – real roots reggae.
Like there’s less melodic textures within the music nowadays.
Yeah, it has been lost.
No interest to create something above or beyond the grooves and beats, the fully structured music, apart from all the overdone stuff, the remakes. I can appreciate some of the beats, but it’s a ‘lazy culture’ in one way, presently.
Yeah. It seems now really the focus is more on money, how much I can earn without putting in the time. It’s like you want to reap but you don’t sow, y’know, there’s no foundation! The foundation is like the foundation has been lost, that quite a few people are trying to sort of stay on the path, but man it’s like you have to get a singular mind. You have to say OK, this is what I’m going to project, and even though people are not listening to it now but I’m doing it in terms of not just for now but also for the future. And then it would live through time, that when people does have a change of mind and a change of focus, you get back on track. Then the music that you’ve done, take time with it, write good lyrics, and do what you need to do. In time it will pay off. But you have to have that vision.
Yeah it’s like, y’know for instance time changes, nothing remain the same. The world that we’re living in is always an evolving one. When a society or a people or a country has lost the real essence of living, of being in harmony with one another, that’s where you lose your focus. That’s where you lose the sweetness or the magic or the togetherness of the humanity in life. So when you lose that, you lose the real sweetness and the real essence of life. You see, if you lose feelings for someone else, then you lose the magic of life. When you lose togetherness with someone else, it’s like you’re in space, you’re really not grounded. So music is reflective of ones period, ones time one living in and one fosters, what’s going through one’s mind. And if you can find somebody else of like-mind, or of singular mind, or can work in harmony with you, put everything… When I’m going to studio my thing is to put everything aside – leave all of the negative things that you have outside, don’t bring it in the studio. If you bring it in we won’t work that day. If you have any problems just leave it outside. When we’re going to studio we wanna concentrate a hundred per cent on what we’re doing, and have everything else shut out – bad music. And to get dedicated people who can and will work with you to divorce themselves of all the other stuff that is around for that period of time, often times it’s real hard. But the wheels of life continues to turn.
How did you find the whole scene there at Brentford Road (nowadays renamed ‘Studio One Boulevard’)?
Well, to be honest to Coxson… he knows that you have the ability, he will spend the time to give you whatever, ’cause he used to spend all of the time with me to give me things to do, like give me songs to listen to. And also if I learned a song he said ‘OK, let me hear it’. And if I’m recording for instance doing the music, doing the background music, I would do the background music and then when I’d start voicing he would tutor me as to how – because I used to be accustomed to singin’ like gospel and sing like, y’know, love songs. And when you’re singin’ gospel and when you’re singin’ love songs, the different mould that you sing reggae music in. So he used to teach me to sing, or to cut the words, the end of the words, and also to sound apiece. I mean, when I left the training in the Youth Corps, it also helped me and he continued in his seering with me how I should be singin’ the song, how I should do it, I should hang on to the end. As reggae music is different, when you’re singin’ blues you have a lot of time to explore the song, with reggae you have a shorter time to explore the song. You know, so it was different there. But going through audition with Studio One, but I had sung for them first, like in about ’68 I think. But when I went there, I did some solo songs. Because the guys who initially should come with me for rehearsal or come with me for audition, they didn’t turn up. So when they didn’t turn up I didn’t sort of did that persuade me, what I had I took the audition. And I think it was Lee Perry who auditioned me and he passed me through, so I got through that day to start recording for Studio One, and that was where I shed the broom. Because to me I said well, if we’re going for an audition and I tell them listen, we have to be there at ten o’clock, and they didn’t turn up; what’s the point in having guys that to me didn’t have the dedication to even turn up for audition? I mean, we’re turning up for an audition that could mean, y’know, you win or lose. But if you have what it takes you can win. I feel one of the things about life, Peter, is that I feel that the directions that we take in life often times pre-destine that we walk certain roads, and we walk that road either alone or together. But one have to have the strength of character and also the strength of conviction of whatever you wanna do, that whether with someone else or alone you’re gonna travel that path, you’re gonna travel it.
What was the Blenders feeling afterwards, when they found out you got a record deal and, like, ‘OK, so what about us?’
(Laughs) Well, I mean, as a matter of fact a friend of mine went to Canada recently, and actually got me one of the guys who used to sing bass. He gave me his number to give me, and I have this number. As a matter of fact I need to call him, so…
Right, you will find out (laughs)!
(Laughs) But I hear rumours and thing that ‘you let them go’, but I mean it wasn’t my fault!
No, no – they had themselves to blame.
Yes (chuckles). So if you don’t have anybody but yourself to blame it’s like trying to hang something on you but it’s not going to fit! I mean, to me, I was so embused (?) with saying that if whether I was hungry or whatever, to me my first commitment was to my singin’. And to me for instance, if we’re going to rehearsal and they start getting popular and they see a girl and, y’know, the girl show fancy to them, they forget the rehearsal. To me…
Hasn’t this been witnessed from time; it’s dangerous to have the other sex around when you’re doing music, right (chuckles)?
(Laughs) Yeah, but to me you have to have a certain commitment with yourself.
Exactly.
You know, you have to be committed to something that you are a hundred per cent committed to what you’re doing, that during that period of time that you’re going to work, nothing will dissuade you. And to me they didn´t have the commitment I was looking for. So I heard afterwards that – years afterwards – I heard there was a little grumbling that I sort of bailed out and leave them, but they couldn’t blame me, they have to blame themselves (chuckles). This week won’t pass really without making that call (laughs)!
(Laughs) Yeah.
But you know I had not seen – that same guy had recommended to some people to have me over in Canada to sing, and he hadn’t seen me for over twenty-five years, and the people he had recommended me to he said to them whichever artists I recommend to you, that particular person said that I hadn’t seen him for twenty-five years and I know that that type of person is a person you could invite to your home and you’d be safe that he’s a family member. I mean, for twenty-five years I hadn’t seen these guys and they have not lost respect for me. Not that I’m the type of person that I belittle myself in any way, shape or form, meaning that there is a certain way that I live and I maintain that.
No, no. I mean, there’s some people that from beginning they might not be talented enough to be on stage or to do the actual singin’ but they might get into production or get into something else that help them to be connected to the music. But I don’t know – as a matter of fact I haven’t talked to Gil, and he and I have to talk. I haven’t talked to them in probably about five or six years or so. So it might be interesting to find out what’s happening with them and see what they’re doing, if they’re doing anything on the music side. Sometimes they do promotion but they’re not doing the actual music. But they remember it and they love it and because you love something you might stay close to it.
Yeah, Bill and Gil. They used to call themselves the Blues Blenders, and I was the leader of the group.
So to the recordings over at Studio One, you did something like ‘Before and After’?
Yeah. Yes, I did a lot of stuff. A lot of Sam Cooke things, like ‘To Each His Own’, ‘When A Boy Fall In Love’, I think I did ‘Tammy’ as well (sings the chorus).
‘Across the Bridge’?
Yeah. ‘Guilty’ (hums the melody). ‘Circle Will Be Unbroken’, which was a real popular song for me. I did ‘Circle Will Be Unbroken’ both for him and Dynamic Sounds, in a reggae-gospel. Then I did ‘Circle Will Be Unbroken’ for Studio One in a gospel mould. A lot of these things was to me – Coxson has some good stuff on tape and I wish I was… I would like to get my hands on. But I suppose he’s sitting on them and warming them up (chuckles).
Ahh, yeah. But of course there’s other tracks for him in the same vein, like ‘Amazing Grace’, ‘Nobody Knows’?
Oh yeah. Yeah, ‘Peace In the Valley’, ‘Just So Close To War’ (?).
Coxson did put out an album on his Tabernacle imprint, the gospel subsidiary to Studio One – ‘Keep Your Eyes On Jesus’. That’s your first and only album for Studio One?
Yeah, ‘Keep Your Eyes On Jesus’.
And those recordings was supposedly done over a longer period, like a two year period? I don’t know for how long you stayed at Studio One?
Well, I stayed at Studio One probably about two years plus I had signed a year contract with him, it might’ve been a two year contract with him, and then after – the two year contract was that fruit for me, and I left Studio One and went and did some tracks for Bunny Lee. When I talked with Bunny, Bunny was telling me that one day he went to Downbeat record shop and he was introduced to the tracks that I had done. And then the wife listened to it and said ‘Oh, Ken Parker he should be singin’ gospel’. And it was after that that I went back to Studio One and did ‘My Whole World Is Falling Down’ and ‘Chokin’ Kind’, which was a hit. And then afterwards he wanted me to sign a contract with him, but I didn’t go back. Because, I mean, I heard after that a company had made him a big offer but they needed my signature, he needed that on paper to give him the fuss he wanted. So I wouldn’t sign. Because to me the treatment that… one of the things about it, Peter, is that really the treatment that producers that I know from Jamaica, if they paid other guys, good luck to them. But my experience of them is that they’re OK to talk with, y’know you run a joke and thing, but where money is concerned it’s a different ballgame. So it’s not an encouraging adventure – my experience of it. I’m encouraged in other ways that, y’know, the songs that I have done has stand the test of time and people recognise me and appreciate it and also love the songs that I have done. You know, I get back satisfaction from that side. But where money is concerned as to payment for things that I have done, people selling my records right now and over the years I don’t get any money out of this. I mean, I’m not sort of holding my breath, y’know what I mean, say OK, I’m holding my breath until the money comes…
I would strongly advise you not to (chuckles).
(Laughs) That’s the only advise I would have to take! So I’m not sort of sitting around and looking for… it’s like you gonna sit around and wait for the stars to fall (laughs)!
Exactly, talk about waiting in vain.
(Chuckles) But I’m not bitter about it either. Often times when I deal with these people and see the years pass and they look no better (laughs)! Not how they used to look. It just sort of show me that really to me dishonesty is no blessing that will come to you. My belief is that all blessing comes from God, and for that reason I try to do good to others. And I try to sow seeds because I believe that life – we must sow seeds in life, and the seeds we sow is our kindness to others; those who are in need, or helping our brother or sister if they need our help, thinking of others as you would have them think of you and do unto others as you would have them do to you. There is different things in life that I believe help to enrich our lives, and whatever you do, check it like you’re proud of what you’re doing, that it’s contributing to the well-being of others. And that’s how I pattern my life and I’m very pleased with the way that God provides for us and look after me and keep me alive and keep me well, and help me to be of help to others. I’m more pleased and satisfied with that, than in thinkin’ about who gone with what and who is sellin’ what and (laughs)… You know, I look on some of them and, y’know, you’re sorry for them. The way they look and they earned all this money and they look no better. And one of the things about it as well is that they can’t take back a dime with them when they pass, and it might not be of help to those that they leave behind. It might be more destruction than help to them.
Oh yeah, right. I see where from early days, from I start singin’ I see from real early what’s happening to people like Delroy Wilson, all the other guys that was before me, I have seen from early days how these people would be singin’ for every week or every month or whatever so often you have new music by them, and when I see them they didn’t look any different than, y’know, anybody else! And if you have a lot of music playing on the radio, it is assumed that the producers would be paying you an amount where you could live from. And to me I detect real early that these guys is just bent on suckin’ you dry of all the emotion, of all the talent and all the ideas that you have, put it on tape, and then you end up penniless! And I decided from early days, I say I’m not gonna let this type of thing happen to me. I said nobody is going to prostitute me out, prostitute my voice, and have everything of me on tape that when people hear me they don’t hear anything new, ’cause all of their stuff, y’know, years pass and they have all of this of me on tape. I said I’m not gonna allow this type of thing to happen to me. So it was a deliberate attempt by me not to let anyone producer find me at his studio sitting down waiting for what? And I remember one time I said to Downbeat, I said to Dodd: “You want me to come to the studio?” I said to him: “Listen, the time you will see me is when I have a session or I have tracks to voice, that’s the only time you gonna see me”. And if I have to go to work at five o’ clock, four o’ clock I’m finished, whatever I’m doing, it finishes at four o’ clock, and I’m off to work. Because at the end of the week I know where my salary is. A lot of the other artists that I have seen, totally just concentrate on music, living off music – and they couldn’t live off music anyway! That’s one of the things about life, I mean as I say, y’know, you can’t tell everyone as to how to live, what they ought to do. You can give people advise, but they live – each person live according to how they think. You think something, that’s how your pattern of thinking is the pattern of life, how you think is how you live. So often times I say we have to educate our young ones, see if we can put some guidelines, help them to be more productive, more satisfied with their work, with what they do, so that they’re not used by unscrupulous people without compensating, at least they’re feeling satisfied that they have been compensated up to a certain point for the effort that they have put in. (Sighs) But… such is life, the wheel of life continues to turn. But I’m not bitter, I’m not bitter about music. I’m pleased that people appreciate really the little in comparison to the lot that others have done. You know, I appreciate people, my fans, who think highly of what I have done and is still doing. Because we had this concert the 9th – last Friday, and we had Hopeton Lewis, Dobby Dobson, Norris Weir (formerly of The Jamaicans), Claudelle Clark and myself, and it was a success. So people still wanna hear more. I mean, people still wanna hear more and I’m satisfied with that. I’m satisfied with that.
In one way you can be thankful over the fact that you came up in an era where the music was still at an infant stage, still innocent, the technique had not reached so far and it has proven timeless much of it, a lasting effort from the early days of this music.
Yeah, we came up in a time whereby every man had to stand on their own feet. Because I remember a time when I was trying to sort of map out a path for myself which was not like anybody else. There comes a time in an artist’s life that you have to determine OK, do I want to sound like this person or do I want to sound like the other person, and you have to actually find a path for yourself. Because unless you find a path for yourself and get your own identity, you will always be reflective of saying well, you’re like this one particular person. To me I should not be moulded in being just one person, I should be multifaceted in what I’m doing. So I’m never one thing, at anyone time. But I’m true to myself but I’m reflective of what is in me and the way I think and the way I live. I should be reflective of that in whatever I do. And it should be reflective of me and can stand the test of time because this is me, is not nobody else. Like when you listen to some of the people that pass, y’know, you listen to them and you can say yeah, this is this particular person. You see what I mean?
I can imagine you demand a lot of yourself and others when working in the studio, the typical perfectionist?
Yeah. I demand a lot from me.
Automatically that means a lot of takes?
Sometimes. I never take it different. I mean, when I’m singin’ one sound I’m hearing other sounds, so I’m always exploring the other sounds. Sometime I just say OK, leave it. You know, you do a certain amount and then you leave it, because to me at all times I want the sound to be right. Because if it doesn’t sound right then it’s not adding, and if it’s taking away from something I’ve already done, then don’t add it to it, let it stay. ‘Cause you can reach a certain pinnacle, you reach a certain level where you add so much and then you stop. Because I think more you’re gonna spoil it, y’know what I mean. But I demand a lot off of me, and I’m not scared of exploring those sounds or exploring those voices or exploring when for instance I’m working with the musicians. I want as I explain to them often times, I say to them: “Listen guys, I want you to be totally divorced as of what is happening outside and I want you to give me the best of what you have and I want you to listen to it as if you were in tuned to one another”. So that the bass is in tune with the guitar, the keyboards is in tune with all the other guys, the drummer is in tune with everybody. And sometimes I don’t even go into all my ranges until all the music is set. Because if I go into all the other ranges it would give them too much things to hear, and then they won’t sort of concentrate and just lay what I want so that I can do the exploring. But music to me has always been enriching, has always been comforting to me, has always been fulfilling to me, has always been soothing to me, has always been inspiring to me. Music have many facets to me that enriches me each time I hear it, so I try and put some of those enrichments in my own music so that people can be enriched by me.
But within that limited amount of space you had when recording in the late sixties, everything seemed to be so cost-effective, leaving little time to go over whatever you felt missing, was this process you’re talking about even possible when everything had to be laid quick?
Well, music was like for instance you’re going to studio and you say OK, I want to try and get down at least five tracks, right. Now if you want to try and get five tracks down and you want to get four tracks down, music is like what I’d say refer to as if you win the pools or the lotto or whatever they call it, you win the sweepstakes, something like that. When you make a hit it’s like you win the sweepstakes or you win the pools or you win the lottery or whatever they’d call it, y’know, it’s a gamble. And if everything comes together, then you win. Now you have people who were recording for years and because of the people that is involved in that, for instance when you go to studio in those days and recording, say, you have the drums, you have the guitar, you have the bass and you have the keyboard – and everybody have to be on the same page and you have two tracks; if one man messed up then you have to stop and gone right over everything again. So whoever putting on the session trying to get the best people to work together, and everybody on the same page; you rehearse and you rehearse and you rehearse and then you take it when you’ve finished that track. But it’s hard work! It’s a lot of sweat.
The Blues Blenders – The Girl Next Door
Ken Parker – The Choking Kind
Ken Parker – I Can’t Hide
Yeah! Yea, it is. It’s real concentration and when one man messed up, man, yunno you have some guys start swearing and all that sort of thing (chuckles), because they’ve maybe tried to lay one track for half the night.
Right, it’s ‘bumbaclaat’ all over the place, huh (chuckles)?!
(Laughs)
Sorry (laughs)!
(Laughs) You know they use a lot of swear words, but they would always say to me that I must pardon them for saying what they have to say – but they swear anyway, y’know what I mean (laughs)!
They’re so intensively ‘up’ in the work they can’t help themselves, right?
Yeah (chuckles).
It’s just a reflection of all the energy going down.
Right, and frustration sometimes (laughs)!
Speaking of perfection, if you are too deep down in how you actually want it that must feel extremely frustrating when something gets released and you don’t get any satisfaction of the final result, even though you have to accept it when someone else is responsible for the product? You simply couldn’t get any further.
Yeah, there’s a lot of music that I’m not satisfied with even at the stage of the game. There’s a lot of music I’m not satisfied with and a lot of music that I say oh, that could’ve done better.
Different key, tempo, adjust the chorus, rewrite a verse, whatever?
Well, sometimes the phrases, sometimes the mood and the moods that I might be in, y’know. There’s a lot of music that I feel that I could’ve done it better. I don’t feel that I’ve reached my best yet, no. I don’t feel that I have reached my best yet. I am to the point where I’m totally – I mean there’s songs for instance that I did that I truly love because of the way that it was done, like ‘Only Yesterday’ to me is a classic.
For Joe Gibbs.
Yeah. ‘My Whole World (Is Falling Down)’ again is a classic. ‘Jimmy Brown’ is a classic although I feel I could’ve done it better. As a matter of fact I tried to do it better in London but the guys lost a lot of the meat of the song in the mixing. Because you can have a good song y’know, but you mess up the mixing.
That’s always a sensitive point, the final mix, the mixing process.
Oh yeah! I mean, my wife said to me y’know often times when you bring home something that you haven’t finished, it sound better than the finished product. I mean, she have a real critical ear. But as I’m saying music really enriches me, so I’m not – to be honest with you, sometime I feel sorry for the people who get so much and put back so little investment in people that they… those who have contributed to them.
How do you feel for those former employers now, such as Coxson and Duke?
Well, you know one of the things that I have come to decide on, Peter, I said to myself ‘well’ (chuckles), ‘why beat up oneself about the dishonesty of others?’ You know, you keep on beating yourself, I mean what do you achieve from it?
Wasting energy more than ‘achieving’ I suppose.
You’re wasting good energy making these people feel that they are actually worthwhile when they are worthless. Because I came to one conclusion: after a period of years I came to one conclusion that one really does not know… not until you get into actual production of music that you would really appreciate what the producers have to go through to try to recoup the money that they’ve spent. You have to actually go into studio, spend the money to do your own production, then you’ll come to the awareness as to how long it take you to get back the money you’ve spent. But if you spend wisely, it’s an investment that will pay off for itself in time. It might not pay off right upfront, because you don’t have the way with all to promote it like the other big guys have. You don’t have that facility or the money to do so. But if you have the money to promote the stuff as those people have, you could’ve made more than what they ever dreamed of making. But I’m not disappointed in where I’m at. I am really not, because I know and I have seen… because I’m a spiritual person as well, we all are spiritual beings; first we’re invisible then we became visible. I’m a spiritual person, and so God gave me the ability to see ahead and to see things that others don’t see. And if I had reached the level worldwide where I’m able – my ability can take me there – I wouldn’t be alive today. I know I would’ve passed on already. I have seen that, so I’m not disappointed in where I’m at. I’m thankful to God that I am here and I’m OK. I’m not complaining at all – I have nothing to complain about (chuckles). Nope. I’m not frustrated about anything, I’m not in need of anything; God provide for us and my wife and I, we have children – some of them are in London, and I have one daughter here, she’s a lawyer. And I’m happy, I have nothing to complain about. My thing is to help others. The stage where I’m at, every day I’m helping somebody else, whether they run short of money or they need food or they need encouragment or they need medicine or whatever, I’m always – my thing is to help others and how I look on it is seeds planting. You plant seeds in life, so you reap benefits.
Totally, that’s how I live. And I’m not concerned (laughs)… you know it amuses me really, it amuses me when I see really what’s been happening years back where people have really contributed so much and get so little. It amuses me to see that people who have taken so much, they don’t look better than those who they rob from. You know, they look no better. So I’m comfortable where I’m at. My thing is to sow good seeds and reap good benefits.
When you went to record for Duke after your time with Coxson, was there a question of ‘lack of loyalty’ surrounding that move, even when you were no longer obliged to record for Studio One?
No, no, no. The only time you can dictate that sort of term to you is when you are under contract for that person. When I was under contract for Studio One, I didn’t either record for anybody else. But when that contract was up, I was free to go to wherever or whoever I feel would give me the best deal. So Dodd couldn’t say to me – I mean I heard he weren’t pleased when I did ‘Will The Circle Be Unbroken’ for Dynamic Sounds, did a reggae version for them which was a beautiful record. A beautiful record, I’d love to get a copy of it now. But he couldn’t say to me ‘how you go and record for Dynamic Sounds?’, because I had no contract to him. And my thing, and that time, was to explore which of the liars was the most honest.
And you really couldn’t tell (laughs)! Ohh man, it’s a – I am amused these days by these guys, I am really amused by them. They don’t lie less. Even through the years they still lie the same way, and they’re still greedy the same way.
I guess they have ‘perfected’ their ability to lie even more, if that’s what you mean?
Oh yeah! Oh yeah, oh yeah. Yep. Probably the name that I would want to call it I wouldn’t print it.
Got it (laughs)! Then it was no more contracts for you after the adventure with Studio One, you just worked freelance from now on?
Yeah, I just freelanced after that. Because to me during the period of time that I was under contract for him, it didn’t worth my while. Any music that I had done, for instance I did ‘My Whole World Is Falling Down’, and when I went back after over let’s say a year, for royalties, he was giving me whatever money – for instance let’s say I sold 50 000 records, and say a percentage out of that which I would say probably supposed to be about five per cent, pending on what they decide to pay you. When I go back, any money that I got from him was claimed as advance on royalties. That wasn’t saying well, after a period of time this was the royalty due to you. Everything was advance on royalty – you imagine that? Your own money which you’re supposed to get clear of any royalties that he had paid to you should be deducted from that and what the balance would be yours, not in terms of advance but royalties was still advance on royalties. Them big time… (sighs). Anyway, let’s move on.
Moving up to the early seventies now, how did this deal with the UK major A&M come about?
Well, what I heard in ’73, ’cause I came to New York in ’69 and stayed up here until ’71, I came back to Jamaica and started singin’ again.
What did you do up there in New York?
Actually I didn’t do any singin’ at all, I just worked. You know, I just worked, odd jobs here and there. I mean I was workin’ with a garment factory one time and, y’know, a cosmetic company another time. But I just worked during that period of time. And I went back to Jamaica, because to me it wasn’t working out in New York. That part of being in New York was really to me not enriching at all in any way, and that was sort of domestically, that part of me being in New York was – as it were – other people wanted to manipulate me and dictate to me as to live under their rules and regulations, because at the time I was just on a visitor’s visa here. And then I decided well, if I was living in New York I had to be working like a mule as it were and wasn’t getting anywhere and being manipulated that I decided well, it was too much misery for me, so I went back to Jamaica. And when I went back to Jamaica this guy Stanley Pemington from England found me and said he wanted me to come to London to sing with A&M Records. Because they’re putting a group together – Winston Francis and Alton Ellis, they wanted just the three of us. They were thinking of Slim Smith to be the third man, but because Slim had died or… yeah, I think Slim had died then or Slim wasn’t too right, they decided OK, I would be the next best person to put this threesome together.
I seem to remember something about this, with Alton saying there was a single from the project bearing your name and Alton’s, but it was actually a duet between him and Slim Smith?
Possible, yes.
From what I remember they put your name there in case the song would make it, instead of Slim.
So what did he say… the song was what?
Your name worked as a replacement for Slim if it would hit, that’s how I understood this.
What were they saying, that it was Slim’s voice?
That one is news to me. I would like to hear that track, ’cause I only let me to what I did. ‘Cause I would only acknowledge what my voice is on. To me my voice is more than capable to standing on it’s own, y’know, than to try and say well, Slim Smith sing a song and they put my name on it. Why? I mean, I don’t see the benefit in that.
Neither do I, but anyway that’s how it went it seems.
And to me – I mean, I wouldn’t agree to anything like that anyway. I wouldn’t want somebody calling Slim… saying that’s Ken Parker, Slim’s voice is on the track and they’re saying it’s me, I would not acknowledge it. I wouldn’t want somebody else’s voice to be representing me, I’m capable of representing myself.
Of course.
I would love to hear that track. If you hear it let me know.
I’ve been looking for it but I suppose it’s pretty rare, that one.
(Chuckles) You mean it wasn’t printed?
I guess it was printed but just scarce distribution, didn’t take off at all. A&M was a big company and I figure they didn’t know from A to Z about the reggae market or how to get it widely distributed outside of reggae, especially not at that point in time.
Yeah, it was A&M Records but they had this company that was doing the production was called Workhouse Productions. But I have an old track and when I get the time I’m gonna be looking it up, it’s on a vinyl, like on a 78 rpm vinyl. They used to call it wax, it was on that. But when I have the time to sort of go browsing I’ll see if I still have it and then listen to it and hear what it’s saying. Because the only ones I have is with my name on it and with my voice on it. But I’ll be intrigued to hear that if you come across it or hear anything definite about it.
I sure will.
And definitely I’ll make sure that my name is not on it. Slim need to gain whatever recognition he didn’t gain while he was alive.
Absolutely. But a 78 (chuckles)?!
No, I think that was just for my ear really. I think that was like ten copies.
OK, acetates, ‘soft wax’.
Yeah.
So tell me more about this Workhouse project.
It was recorded in England, what you call Old Kent Road. Old Kent Road, that’s how you call it in East London, southeast London.
Who participated in this project, musicians and so on?
I don’t remember at all. I mean, that was some moons back. Just local musicians, session players.
And Alton had left Canada at that point and settled in London.
Yeah. I mean, when I went to England he was there, and he had gone for London long before I did. So I went to London in ’73.
And then you decided to stay?
Who, me? Oh yeah, after a while I realised when we did probably about three tracks and they weren’t to… to me they weren’t reflective of what the original investors was expecting. It didn’t come up to the level whereby – it’s like these guys throw something together but we didn’t have the right combination, so I don’t think they were pleased with the final product of what they got. And I heard the guys was paid a certain amount of money which we didn’t get any of. I mean, I didn’t get any, I don’t know if the other guys had gotten, but I didn’t get any from them. I start workin’, looking a job and thing and then I decided well, I had a girlfriend in Jamaica then and she wanted me to come home but after a while I decided OK, yes, I’m gonna go back. And then I wrote to her and said I was gonna come home and (chuckles)… the reply that I got back was not exactly something I wouldn’t be going back home to the home I thought I had! So I decided against going back home and it was a good thing. But all along really I’ve been guided by God as to my actions, so my path that I walked was pre-determined for me as to the road that I should walk, to bring me to where I’m at. So, I didn’t go back and I stayed in London and then eventually first time that I went up I went on like a visitor’s visa, and then afterwards it take me quite a few years really to get my permanent stay there. And after I leave Workhouse I went into working, I decided then I’m going to stop going into studio and singin’ for these people. ‘Cause I decided then if one want to be one own person, you cannot for the rest of your life contribute to others and nothing to you. So I decided I’m gonna start doing my own production and doing the ‘Circle Will Be Unbroken’, the ‘I Shall Not Be Removed’ – a gospel. My first medley-gospel! After I start doing my medley-gospel everybody else start doing medley-gospel. And that gospel album is selling from then till now, and it will continue to sell.
When was it released?
This album was released about ’85.
So that’s the first album you did after leaving Jamaica?
Yeah. For myself.
I was merely working, really. I was mostly working and I did some shows, y’know, up and down. But I wasn’t actually doing anything like workin’ in the studio, per say. I was planning and I was putting things together, y’know, rehearsing and then formulating songs until I said OK, this is what I’m going to do. And in the meantime I recorded for a guy over in Clapton, I did a few tracks for a guy over in Clapton – I forget his name now. I think he was on Dove label.
Ah! I recognised some tracks on a compilation by Roy Cousins (formerly of The Royals) on the Wambesi label.
Roy Cousins, that’s it. Yes, I did probably two tracks for Roy Cousins.
‘Girl Asheba’ was on a 45, and some others I’ve seen scattered over his compilations (such as ‘Deceiving Girl’ on the ‘Roots of David’ LP and ‘What Kind of World’ on the Vision of Reggae’ album).
Right, right. I did those two tracks for him.
Early eighties then?
Yeah.
Speaking about some other one-off tracks you did, when was the music for Rupie Edwards’ Success label cut, if you recall this?
Yes, as a matter of fact I did that for him in Jamaica. ‘I Wanna Be Loved’, I did that for him. I probably did about two or three tracks for him, something like that.
A song called ‘Genuine Love’.
Yes. ‘Genuine Love’, a beautiful song (sings the chorus).
A remake of ‘Change Gonna Come’ appeared on Channel One too? That’s what I’ve seen.
Oh yeah.
This was cut while on vacation, a stop to visit to family and friends in Jamaica or whatever?
No. Actually I think I did that… when I left Jamaica I didn’t go back down there to do any more tracks. All the intervening tracks that I have done was in London, y’know.
So you linked with JoJo Hookim while he was on business in London? Or the Cha Cha people?
Not that I can remember.
How could this one come about, ‘Change Gonna Come’ for Channel One?
I’m sure it was done in London. I mean, through my singin’ career I always have producers who always want me to sing for them. But I choose as to who I sing for and I might do one track for somebody, just for them to prove to themselves as to, y’know, how honest they are (chuckles), which they always prove themselves wrong. I always look at it that it’s coming like a woman when you’re growing up or a certain part of your life you see a nice woman and you want to make a date with her, then you tell her also the lies. These guys to me came in in similar fashion. You know, they tell you what you want to hear for that period of time but with me I always know beforehand from they start talkin’ that they were lying, but they just want to get me to studio to do a recording for them. So sometimes I’ll be going to the studio and say OK, I’ll do a track for you, and let them prove to themselves that they really were telling me lies. But I knew before I did the track. I remember Bunny Lee, I did record for Bunny Lee and I mean when the money reaped there, y’know, when I come in it’s all finished. And one of the time I remember he wanted me to going to the studio and I said to him yeah, I’m going to the studio but you’ve gotta pay me before I go in. I mean, however small it was at least that was the only money I would get right there. That’s the nature of the business, nature of this business. I mean I did a track for an album for Body Music where it was a sort of joint venture and what’s his name that was the producer…?
Fitzroy…?
Roy Thomas. To me it was an overproduced album. A lot of tracks on that album I have written but it was an overproduced album. Really, when you have one producer you really don’t need another producer directing traffic at the same time. And both of us really was sort of directing and to me it was overproduced. When I see it possible, if I get the right type of guys, I may redo that album.
Sonia Pottinger, you did ‘I Should Have Known’ on High Note?
(Hums the melody) If I’m not mistaken you know I’ve got… it’s on Sonia’s label?
Yes, on her High Note label.
Oh well. Yeah, I had passed through her but I didn’t stay long.
I can guess why.
(Laughs) Bwaaaiii…
Yeah? Well, another passing-through again.
Then you had ‘It’s Bubbling’ for Glen Guthrie on the Calvarie Temple label?
Yeah, yes (sings the chorus).
Yeah. As a matter of fact it’s a song that I might just go and bubble it over again because I’m putting together an album (laughs)!
You mentioned Dynamic before, and you had ‘It’s True’ for Warrick Lyn?
Yes, Dynamic Sounds. Yes, yes. Another pass-through again.
(Laughs) I think I’m getting used hearing that now!
(Laughs) Well, you see my term was ‘testing the waters’ to see the longevity or the honesty of these people.
Right, not too much – two or three tracks, and that’s it.
Exactly. And they all would have to get together, right (laughs)!
There was another one titled ‘Not Far Away’ for said Glen Guthrie as well.
Oh yeah… no, no, no! I think that was for Studio One.
But what I have listed here is for Glen Guthrie though.
OK (sings the chorus).
You remember when it was cut?
You know, I don’t remember. I don’t remember where that was cut. I know it wasn’t cut.. I think it might’ve been cut at Federal.
And ‘Sad Mood’ for Harry Mudie, the same song for three different producers. Mudie, Bunny Lee and Torpedo… wait a minute, Torpedo is possibly a UK press of the Bunny track though?
Yeah, it was more Bunny Lee. If you have it on three different labels, right, that mean I would’ve done it three different times. I mean, I love the song but I don’t think I have done it that many times.
‘A Message To Mary’ for Lloyd Charmers and his Splash imprint.
Mmm. And ‘I Need To Belong’.
And ‘When A Man Is In Love’ for Winston Riley.
Mmm.
When did you set up the UC label, you did ‘You Better Go’ for that label?
You mean when I started it?
It was just this one session?
Yeah, that was in the early planning and I think actually that was in about ’80 or ’82 or ’83.
What about the recording for D. Anderson on the Blue Mundy label?
Yeah, that was the real early, my first track, like. That was before I went to Studio One.
So who was this D. Anderson?
He was a… what you term that…?
You had ‘Your Neighbour Next Door’ for him.
Yes, he was an engineer or he had a television shop, he works on televisions and radios and all that sort of stuff. But he loved the music so then we used to go by him and he was really enthused, wanting to work with us to put some tracks down. So that was how that came about. He was the first person I did any recording for, and that was with the Blues Blenders.
Should be collected, if you could find a clean copy of it.
You’re telling me.
Historic.
It is. I mean, I have some tapes here that I have done some tracks probably about in ’76 or thereabout, I have some tapes here that I’ve taken out, dusted off and listened to and make sure that I get them off the tape before the tape start rottening really.
Like baking it? ‘Cooking’ the tapes, then transferring to DAT.
Yeah, yeah. I have some tracks here – I mean I have some unfinished tracks that I really, y’know, like you’re going to studio and lay some tracks and they put them away and they didn’t do anything, any more work on them. And I need to dust them out and I’ll be doing that soon really, ’cause I need to compile… I have probably about four albums on tape that hasn’t been put out. And I have one that need to be re-released, one called ‘Touch of Inspiration’. Beautiful, beautiful album.
No, actually ‘Jimmy Brown’ was put out while I was in Jamaica. I think it was ’72 it was put out.
Then you have the ‘Here Comes Ken Parker’, the Jamaican version of this album.
Must be, must be. Because no-one producer in Jamaica could put out any… the only person that could come near to putting out one or two albums by me would be Studio One. And he would have to dig real far to pick up everything, every breath that I breath in the studio. My thing was not to go to these guys and let them wear you out, and you get nothing for it. So my thing was always I have to have a job, and that was always my motto, that no producer should dictate to me as to working myself to the bone and not getting anything for it and they can dictate to you and also deliver you and when they get enough they don’t want to see you no more. No producer is supposed to – I never put myself in that position where any producer could handle me so, when he see me he is glad to see me.
He should be, ought to.
Yeah, that was always my motto, and I maintained that right through.
Did you use a pseudonym for Joe Gibbs, or it was he that titled you ‘Kenneth Power’, one called ‘Row Us Home’, another one titled ‘I And I A Go Whip Them’? When was this recorded?
Yeah. Phoooo…. That was recorded somewhere in-between ’67 and ’68.
You never did something more than once for Joe Gibbs?
Yeah, yeah. He was just a one-off, just a one-off.
‘I And I Go Whip Them’? This sounds a bit stronger as far as lyrical content goes?
I realised that one of the times I had gone like swayed a little and did a radical type of song. I mean, I think one track that I done sometime was sort of as it were you come out of the normal path that you trod, and did something different. But it wouldn’t take me long to go right back to my customary way of doing songs.
Speaking about social comment and what essentially the Rastas brought to the music, how did you feel about that change at the time?
To me the Rasta music didn’t really sort of face me to – it didn’t sort of let me lose belief in the lyrical content of the music. What disappointed me was the deejay stuff, that part of the music disappointed me. To me it didn’t do anything for me then and even now it doesn’t do anything for me. The Rasta influence on reggae music to me was not taking away the lyrical content or the originality of it. It didn’t to me lower the standard of reggae at all, I think it add to it.
You left when that took hold in the music.
Well, with me, Peter, how I do it – I mean, I am confident and focused in whatever I’m doing, that is projective of what I want people to hear of me. I’m not influenced easily by other people, what they’re doing I listen to it and if it appeals to me then I listen to it and, y’know, I’ll be a part of it. But if it’s not really adding to my growth in a spiritual way or psychologically or emotionally or is doing something, making other people feel good about listening to it, really my focus is on what I’m doing. ‘Cause I try to be the best of what I am doing.
As I tend to say, you just go along with what you knows best, simple as that.
Yeah. I have learned over a period of years is that you really have to be careful of what you’ve been influenced by, y’know what I mean.
Not turning the coat from where the wind blows.
No, you’re not turning to look at every thing that pass, you’ll be selective in what you choose. Because what comes out of you, eventually reflect you and represents you. So you have to be selective in what you choose. ‘Cause there’s things that is detrimental for you and you have to let things pass, not because somebody else want you to do it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s right for you or that it would be uplifting for you. So there comes a time when you have to let things pass.
It’s a question of credibility as well.
All the time.
To maintain a career you have to stand firm in your beliefs and don’t compromise too much, in doing so you can put your career to jeopardy.
No, no, no. Yeah. And also what it does as well is that it shows instability. To me a lot of those producers, I did a lot of them favours by doing a track for them. I didn’t gain anything from it or I was hoping to gain anything from it, I did it as a favour to them. When I went to London I did it as a favour for those guys but I also did it as a favour for me not knowing because of the outcome of my life being in London. But often times I see producers coming up, I see producers and I say to myself well, I really couldn’t lower myself to go and sing for people like those. I mean, that was my thought that because it’s not that that person had very little integrity, they swear like a trooper, they have no honesty and all the other stuff that goes along with it. And when I do recordings for a lot of these guys, I did them a favour by doing a track for them, and say, y’know, here is a track, take it and see what you can do with it.
Well, my understanding is that…
You’re using some Treasure Isle material for instance.
No, let’s say I’m using some original tracks. I’m using some original tracks of the work that I have done. Well, let’s say I’m compiling some original tracks that I had done. Because it is due, a lot of people out there is pressing records of me and they’re pressing as it were substitute of the originals. So people are not getting the real true original music that was done then. So my focus really is to put together an original album of the tracks that was done in the sixties coming up to ’73. That’s how delicate I’d put it.
(Laughs) You see one of the things about it, Peter, is that one must be diplomatic when you’re dealing with the wider public. Just in case it’s misconcluded and come out different from how you want it to sound, you see (chuckles).
Yep, that’s right. So what is the content of this upcoming album to be more specific, there is no or will be overlapse with the Trojan compilation?
Well, I really don’t…
It doesn’t matter anyhow.
Yeah. No, because you see here is how I’m looking at things: I’m still waiting after thirty years to collect some royalties from all those people who have put out my music and is still putting it out. And it’s a long wait but I have patience, y’know what I mean (chuckles). I have patience and it amuses me sometimes that these people can continue year after year to benefit from something and they say OK, they can’t contact me. I mean, as most people in London or lookin’ on the internet, sooner or later you’ll see my website coming up there. ‘Cause I will be making this, putting up a website.
Good.
So they won’t be able to say well, they can’t find me. And if they really want to find me they can find me ’cause I’m never hidden. Go into any of those big distributors and pick up a CD of me and they can find a number on a CD. Or whoever selling or distributing the CD I’m sure that they can get in touch with me sooner or later if they really want to. But I’m not as I said earlier on sort of holding my breath and waiting for them to call, as I have much more things to do in the meantime. But I will be compiling a very interesting album, some tracks that I have done in London in ’73 and some in ’78, that sort of time and I’ll be compiling at least about twelve tracks on this album, and it’s gonna be real interesting. When you hear these what I’m gonna be bringing out, it’s gonna be one of all the stuff that I have already put out, or have been put out by me or by others from me.
Sounds like good news to me.
Yep, yep. It’s coming up to the time when it’s more than due for me to start reaping some benefits and the journey has been long and it has been a learning journey. I have been enriched by that journey, the journey of life. And all the things that I encountered, the people that I encountered, have enriched me whether in a good way or a bad way, they have made me be more aware of life and people and things. So I have learned and I’m thankful for the journey that I have walked. And I’m not in any way bitter or worsened by it, I’m enriched by it. So I’m grateful to them for the encounters that I had with the people that I have encountered. As I said first and foremost we’re spiritual beings and there’s a lot of things we can achieve on a spiritual level that often times isn’t possible on a physical level, but first you achieve the things spiritually then you achieve it physically. I mean, this might sound too much for me what I’m saying here but I mean… too much relaying it to you, but as I said we can achieve a lot of things wherever you are at. For instance, if I want to achieve something in London, you can stay right where you are here in Florida and achieve the result in London and not being there, pending on you see how it goes back to how you think is how you live. But in all things you must be honest in everything that you do so that you’re clear in everything that you do.
By the way, who is responsible for Duke Reid’s material now, it’s still belonging to Sonia Pottinger, isn’t it?
No, it’s not. It was leased to her for a period of time, and she didn’t hand it over back to Duke’s wife. And a friend of mine here have the paperwork to show that it was so.
But didn’t even Coxson get the rights to some of the Treasure Isle stuff as well?
Coxson doesn’t own it either because she didn’t have the right to sell Coxson anything.
But there was some of Lee Perry’s Upsetter catalog and some of Duke’s that he pressed up anyhow.
Well, I don’t know about Lee Perry’s one but for Duke material Mrs Pottinger didn’t have the right and don’t have the right to sell the music to Dodd. Hey, you know there’s a guy here, right, that I must put you on to him. He has some real deep inside story of the Pottinger and the Duke stuff, you could write a book about that (chuckles).
So how does this work now, technically, the old material from back in the sixties and so on, how does it…
Revert back to me?
Yes.
I don’t know, as far as I get to understand after thirty years it revert back to me. But I’m going to be talking to somebody who said he’ll be able… I mean I’m gonna talk to Hopeton (Lewis) because he said he have some direct knowledge as to people he is with, that all music that he has done after a given period of time it revert back to the artists. And also the thing about it as well is that anybody who really have the rights to those music that I have done… would be me! Specially for you, and the other guys that didn’t pay me would have to come up and start counting up.
It’s a shame that, probably, most of the vets in the music just aren’t aware of the fact that the music reverts back after a period of time.
Well yeah, they probably can’t be bothered anyway. You know, they reach a point where they probably figure well, y’know, they don’t bother about it. You know they just make it right, y’know what I mean. Yeah, they just make it right, they don’t sort of let it be what you’d call a pillow on the back, they just let it pass. And I think really that some probably don’t have it all to pursuit or have any concept as to what they really could do to get some recompense. And you have some people in the business that when you’re dealing with them they’re so frustrating that it’s like waste of good energy, it’s like trying to get blood from stones. So sometime they probably would look on the amount of effort they would have to put into trying to get something from these guys, is like waste of good energy.
Old wounds, ripping them open again.
Yeah! First thing it’s ‘Bwoy yunno Jackson, you never make no money anyhow’, y’know (laughs).
Right (laughs)!
Cho, why bother, y’know what I mean? You gotta do what you can do for the time that you have here. You know, beating a dead horse. These guys will never change, they were always that way. You’re just wasting good energy. Just make it run, really. Just live and forget it and leave things to the Master because He makes and controls the life, the air we breathe and He controls the whole span of time that we have here. So why let these guys wear you out? There’s so much that… forget it.
Really, the ‘Glint of Gold’ album have… it’s a compilation really that has quite a lot of the old stuff, it has the ‘Jimmy Brown’. But it really wasn’t sort of pristine level that I would’ve wanted them to be, but I did the best that I could. It has the ‘True True True’, ‘My Whole World Is Falling Down’, ‘Chokin’ Kind’, ‘Help Me Make It Through The Night’, ‘Heartbreak Woman’. And ‘Heartbreak Woman’ was this song that I did on the Dove label, for this guy over in Clapton (Roy Cousins). Then it’s ‘I Should Have Known’, ‘Sad Mood’ – Bunny Lee had produced that, ‘Say Wonderful Things’ – Byron Lee had produced that, ‘I Can’t Hide’, ‘Mother’s Eye’, ‘I Won’t Cry’, this is what’s on the ‘Glint of Gold’. As a matter of fact, people keep asking me to press some more of this album. But you know, you don’t go out and press a record until the demand is strong, every step of the way costs money.
Did you notice something about your records that we didn’t penetrate during the course of this interview?
No, what (chuckles)?
The recent Trojan compilation.
(Laughs)
This was more or less intentional. From what I’ve gathered there has been some correct information being said about this whole ugly affair where there has been ‘threats’ for those who utters the truth of the matter, one author you know for example.
They threatened him?
Yeah, you could say that.
Isn’t that interesting?
I see it more from the ‘ugly’ side I’d say. It’s nothing else really.
Because as I said to you earlier on about being the type of person that I am, I have seen them and the type of people they are. And the type of people they are did not surprise me from my experience with them, you see what I mean. But for the record, I haven’t received any money from Trojan, Sanctuary, anyone of them, since about the past thirty years. And it would be nice to… you know? But as I said I’m not holding my breath. And I’m not even looking, I’m just stating the facts as they are.
It makes it even more disgraceful – if not downright disgusting – to see how you were contacted and involved from an early stage for information in one way or the other, and then being totally ripped off when the project was released, it makes it even worse. Especially when this was a good package for the most part, a job done well regarding selection, design and so forth. It stinks.
Oh definitely, naturally. And I had even sent them a photograph, a photograph that was taken somewhere about 1970, that sort of time. So they had a photograph of me from then, so it’s not that they could say well, they didn’t have any contact with me, as to how to contact me.
Do you have the album?
No, I don’t have the album.
They didn’t even send you a copy?!
Oh no. They think I’m no longer on this side of the boat.
It’s terrible.
It is. They didn’t even pay me the compliment of sending me a copy of the record. But I’m not holding my breath or am I griping. I’m just stating facts how it is. But it’s disappointing, y’know what I mean, for a reputable company not to act in an honest and a forthright manner compensating for work that they are prospering from or exploiting it, to me it’s disappointing to say the least.
Very.
I wonder if the managing director or whoever those people are would be aware of how the companies treat the people that they’re exploiting the music from? Well, the journey continues, y’know what I mean.
The journey will indeed continue. And Ken is not doing worse, even though things could be better regarding musical affairs by some that seems to specialize in sucking people dry of what they had or have, then dump them and go on to someone else which will be treated just as bad. It would be nice to know if some moral can be involved somewhere. But most of us know and feel that this will not change today nor tomorrow, not next year, or the coming years. But, perhaps, with someone like the French lawyer Andre Bertrand doing some good on his side to get money back to these artists, there will be a slight change for the better. Hopefully, but not likely. I would encourage you all to check Ken’s ‘Glint of Gold’ anthology, it is for the most part just as good as what you can ‘find elsewhere’ and worth your investment if you are new to his music. There is several gospel records he cut while living in England, such as ‘Jesus On The Mainline’ and ‘I Shall Not Be Moved’ that is worth investigating, and the upcoming compilation talked about within this space to watch for. If only the Dodd headquarters could reissue the long unavailable ‘Keep Your Eyes On Jesus’ LP and make sure that our artist gets his share, which he is more than due, then we could all be as happy as happy can be. But will it happen? Only the higher powers know.
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